la la land....
* Asalam'alaykum *
Lately, I've been hearing a lot about "the perfect wife." How to find someone who's wife material, how girls should be/act, etc...you get the point. How about going the other way...finding a husband? It's true that many times sisters have a harder time finding deen-y brothers, cuz most of the time, the younger guys like to have a little fun before hitting up the marriage wagon. So, sisters usually get gyped and are more likely to find guys who are older and have already had their fun....
But what about those guys who wanna get married @ a younger age?
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It is mentioned in hadith that a woman has the right to have a muslim husband whose general aqeedah (beliefs/creed) and minhaj (methodology) is Qur'an and Sunnah and To be clothed and fed as well as the husband, from his means.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one
of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from
their means. (Qur'an 4:34)
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More importantly, guys haveta remember one thing; that, yes, of course, without a doubt, deen is imortant, along with things like compatibility, appearance, etc... But for a girl, especially one that's mature, stability and security should be just as, if not more, imperative when looking for a husband. And please, by this I don't mean he's gotta be like P.Diddy, he just hasta be able to provide! I don't understand why some guys don't see that as a major issue. I feel that wanting stability is being practical not superficial, as some may like to believe. Fine, if your definition of a husband being able to provide is getting a Mansion in the 90210 zip, driving a Benz and having life-long membership @ the beach club, then you're probably superficial, but what's wrong with wanting a husband who can at least give you a comfortable life?
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Yea, the definition of "provide" varies from girl to girl, but we generally tend to agree that it hasta be enough to give a girl security and stability . That means that the girl has the ability to make her decision based on that second ("providing for") criteria too. If you hadn't noticed, but the hadith I quoted above, basically has two elements to it:
A) A woman has the right to have a muslim husband whose general aqeedah (beliefs/creed) and minhaj
(methodology) is Qur'an and Sunnah And,
B) To be clothed and fed as well as the husband, from his means.
Thats a conjunctive "And," meaning that the 2 parts go hand in hand; if both aren't met then one cancels the other. I don't feel then that wanting a guy for stability reason is a cultural or societal norm thats been ingrained in us. The point i'm trying to make is then, that guys who want to get married early, meaning when they still have schooling to finish and a job to find, should consider waiting, only because they may not be able to provide with stablity and security, and a girl who rejects a guy for those reasons isn't neccessarily being supeficial, not to mention that its also her right.
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One argument a younger guy could make is that he'd provide with his family. Kind of like, fine, if you want a comfortable life, we can live with my parents and that too is providing. I agree. Still, what about security and stability? I'm not trying to talk in "if's," but one very plausible If worth entertaining is, how about if something happens to his family (nauthobillah)? Will he still be able to provide that stability and security? Am I justified in considering that, or am I being too picky? I didn't think so. That IF my only question to the "Can he provide with stability and securiy" criteria.
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Just so i'm clear, i'm not supporting the cultural, especially desi culture, requirements for providing. The one's that demand a guy to be rich as Trump or have a PhD or wutever. I'm just saying that wanting #1 Deen an then #2 "Being able to Provide," are understandable requirments and should not offend younger guys who want to get married, but who get rejected because they don't fulfill #2 yet. Doesn't mean he shouldn't or can't get married, just means that he should wait or find a girl who's definitions of "provide for" is more along the lines of what his are.
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Allahumma inne asaloka wal amaan e wal imaan fid dunya wal akhera. {Ameen}
-- Oh Allah I ask of you peace & faith in this world & in the hereafter --
wasalaam :)
posted by MnM310 at 12:20 PM
22 Comments:
salaam,
i gotta agree with you, deen and stability/security is not asking for the earth.
Personally i think its geat when people get married young (when i say young i mean more uni age 19 onwards) and do feel that sometimes parents should help them out. Now before i cause an uproar, in certain cicumstances i think it is really helpful and have seen it work wonders, so although material security may not directly be provided by the husband, the parents helping out would be ideal (although i have to say not many parents may be willing to do so!)
anyway thats just my 2 cents!
zahera: wooOOhoo yup.. we see eye to eye on this one.
neuroticnoon: i agree that in some situations young couples getting married may be possible and i can see that a guy's situation varies from guy to guy. In some circumstances a young guy may be able to get married early..but not often i thnk. :P
ahy: I see your point of view...you knw my defintion of provide, and you know its not about some rich or highly educated guy, and i dont know why ur hung up on that. Altho, i agree that most times, thats wut the reality is. ITS JUST NOT MY REALITY!
#1mnm: no name calling missy! Sorry Mal, ima haveta get ridda it.
Ahy: sarcasm? lol
Zahera: yea i agree..name calling is not a constructive way to argue either.
Ws...
~ madiha~
quoting ahy "What if your PhD husband lost his job, or what if he fell ill and could not work. What if?"...to that i say that is why us women get our own phd's and provide for ourselves...
:)
I think it can almost be classified as selfish to think that your gonna bring a sister into your poverty on the premise that your 'on the deen'.
What about her needs? Is a sister really 'shallow' if she can not see herself living a life that is a downgrade from what she is used to?
The suitable match concept is something that the scholars have expounded on greatly and in the hanafi fiqi the ulema have gotten really detailed into what classifies a suitable match for a sister, and lets just say that the Ulema [as it should be] have really taken care of our sisters with regards to making sure they get a man who is deserving of her class.
A prince can marry a commoner and she become a queen overnight, yet a princess marrying a commoner can be done but the commoner will not increase in status at all.
I remember Abdullah Adhami, who has spent his entire life studying this deen and would definitely be classified as someone who has 'deen', he even got married at 35 cuz he couldnt afford to get married until then! He said his first proposal came at 15! Imagine that!
We have to keep in mind that we want happy wives, we dont want wives who 'settled' for us 'despite' our status. We want someone who appreciates us for who we are, and we want to be able to keep them comfortable so that they in turn will be a cooling for our eyes.
PS: Also, in hanafi fiqi at least, the scholars give sisters the right to her own place. So to just 'assume' that a sister should be content with living at home with your rents is a stretch, especially sisters from here.
I remember my mother was a bit perterbed when I told her that I wasnt gonna stay at home with the fam when I got married, and that I would get an apartment down the street.
I want my wife to be comfortable at home and I cant imagine her being comfy with her mother in law breathing down her neck all the time, having only one room as her own and everything else being shared by the entire fam, and [at least for me] having a non mahrem male at the house is not good times. I know I wouldnt wanna walk around the crib in a hijab/jilbab nearly 24/7...thats dhulm!
Plus, i know when I got home from work I wouldnt want my wife looking frumpy with all those clothes on, id want to be able to open the door and see a site which would please my eye ;)
Sorry for the late reply Mads. Been busy and just saw this post.. Wanted to reply :D. I personally think your right about everything. Not that it's coming from a man. I believe before marriage, a the man has to look deep within himself and ask, "Am I ready for marriage? Can I give my wife and kids a stable base to build their lives with? "If the answer is no, it isn't the right time.
As-Salaamu ‘Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh,
The Prophet Muhamamd (saw) said, “ O group of young men! Whoever among you is able to afford it then let him get married. For verily it is better for lowering the gaze and it is safer for the private parts.”(Al-Bukhari)
You know why Muhammad (saw) said that? It was not out of his own will, but because Allaah had commanded him and he could also have been commanded to say that one should not get married until they have pursued a greater education or build a mansion for the wife-to-be but He did not.
Let me ask you, what exactly is ‘stability’ to you? Do you want him to provide a 5 bedroom home for a newly married couple? Do you want him to buy you a brand new car just because thats what stability is? La’ ya ukhtee, that is not stability! That is indulgence in the dunya! Stability is being able to give you a place to sleep at night, providing you every meal of the day, buying you the clothes to wear and to care for your kids. How do you define a ‘comfortable’ life? You can have a VERY comfortable life with ANYTHING that Allaah has given by His will.
There are plenty of brothers going to school simply because the majority of parents will never allow their daughters to marry an ‘uneducated’ man. This education that he is trying to get is what you depend upon? So, that with his great degrees he can get a great paying job to buy a great house and live a great life and have a great wife? La, ya ukhtee. These brothers that do not fulfill your #2 of not being able to give you stability and security are probably the hardest working brothers.
They do not deserve sisters like us, who whine and complain about wanting more of the dunyah when our security lays in the Hands of Allaah. What insurance do we have to protect us from the aakhirah? Indeed, we will be held accountable for every act of ours and if we reject someone simply because they do not make the $80,000 or $300,000 income we see to be ‘comfortable’ to our lifestyle, ask yourself, what will you tell Allaah? Are you willing to give up your emaan at such a cheap price? SubHana-Allaah.
A lot of brothers do not just get married for the heck of it. They have something to offer and so they decide to get married. No one in their right-mind would get married without getting a job or getting an education in today’s time and age.
“guys of today dont match the Prophet (saw) or the Sahaba's they so claim to emulate in either their sabr of adaab.”
Ukhtee, if we want our husbands to act like the pious, we should first look at ourselves. How much are we asking of them? How did the Sahabiya handle such sitations? Did they demand their husband-to-be to go and find them a stable place to live? This is not the way of Islaam. Of course, every single one of us want the most of what Allaah has to offer but there is always a limit.
As the time progresses, the expectations and demands of women grow as well. This is sad because I truly see the saying of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (saw) come into place as a friend mentioned.
“I was shown the hellfire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.” It was asked, ‘Do they disbelieve in Allah?’ (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, “They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good done to them. If you have always been good to one of them and then she sees something in you, she will say, ‘I have never received any good from you’” [al-Bukhari]
“If a woman prays her five, fasts her month, guards her private parts, and obeys her husband, then it is said to her, ‘Enter into Paradise from any of the gates you wish’”[Musnad Ahmad]
I can go on and on about topic because it is truly disturbing but I’ll stop, Insha-Allaah.
Was-Salaamu ‘Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh
I have never seen a difference between women who want men for money or men who want women for looks. Both are materialistic in their own way. However, sometimes human nature is such that a man will not be happy with an unattractive wife and a woman will not be happy living in poverty no matter how strong their deen is. That is why we have been allowed to use these as criteria for marriage. There are always extremes in which men find no woman attractive enough for their standards and woman who can't find a husband with enough earning potential to fulfill her "needs". But, I think that eventually we all end up with someone who is like us in these and many other ways. These are aspects of compatability that are impossible to overlook and I don't think we should idealize ourselves and pretend like they have absolotely no effect on us. The importance of each of these things is very different for each individual. There are people who will not be happy without certain things and if they settle they will also make their spouse unhappy as well. We all find different things attractive (religion, looks, money, personality, sense of humor, etc). This is a good thing, because if not, then we would all want to marry the same person. It's easy to belittle people for wanting material things, but we are human and Allah gave us wants and desires (as rediculous as some may be). We just have to learn to keep ourselves in check and make sure that we have our priorities straight.
subhanAllah since we're on the topic of marriage...
i think you guys should check this out:
http://iqrabismirabbika.blogspot.com/2006/05/obituary-for-umm-ibrahim-by-shaykh.html
It is Shaykh Muhammad al Yaqoubi's Obituary for his wife (may Allah bless her soul)...
I dunno about all you guys fightin over this stuff. . . but all I gotta say is "hook me up with my suga momma!"
ahy: please don't be mean, I dont like personal attacks and that's very close to one. Ima haveta censor u sonny! ( if you didnt notice, i censored my own sis, my twin! so you shouldn't take offense.)
zahera: i'm sorry i didn't see that.
reza: I agree and ur totally rite, but some guys tend to think that they're ready when in reality & in practicality they're not. And that is where the problem lies.
umm qayah: i dont appreciate you saying that its "whining" to give a list of wut you prefer or want when you're mature enough to know what you want in life. Especially, when you take marriage very seriously. i agree w/ some of your points, but whoever said that by provide and comfort i meant making $80k-$300k? Why is it that ppl believe the worst in others? i'm sure ur aware that its sunnah not to. I thnk i made it clear in my post what i feel providing for and comfort are..but i'm not talking so personally here anyways..i'm talking generally. In that, yes, the definitions to each differ from girl to girl..and only that guys should be aware of it. Also, not everyone's definition is superficial and that it shouldn't be characterized as such rite off the bat.
its only a way @ looking at the whole marriage idea from a different point of view. Something that shouldnt be bashed just b/c its different.
"A lot of brothers do not just get married for the heck of it. They have something to offer and so they decide to get married. No one in their right-mind would get married without getting a job or getting an education in today’s time and age." <-- u'd be surprised and hence the reason i put this post.
and..i agree w/ u 100% that some of the bro's who are looking to get married ARE the most hardworking, but i'm just saying, that they may not be able to provide for a certain girl who's expectation are different, and that those bro's should just keep it in mind when approaching a girl. I never said they souldn't or couldn't get married {actually i made it a point in my last paragraph}.
"I was shown the hellfire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.” It was asked, ‘Do they disbelieve in Allah?’ (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, “They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good done to them. If you have always been good to one of them and then she sees something in you, she will say, ‘I have never received any good from you’” [al-Bukhari]" < --- omg, how can u say only that much. its unbelievable that a woman would only look to one side of thngs. Can we not ask of a husband who fulfills our req's? And i dont mean frivolous ones, like a car, a mansion, etc.. i mean ones that are imperative to living a good life..provide for our needs and our kids to the best of his means. Why is that not following Allah swt's deen? how does that lead one to hellfire? I think you need to rethink some things in life... or need some real life experience that you seem to be lacking.
hk: awesome point. i'm so glad you brought that up.
wasalaam all. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should feel free to say it on this blog. However, please remember to keep this an insult-free discussion. jazakallah. :)
madiha, you didn't write a comment to me :(
IQRA BISMI RABIKA: THANK YOU FOR THAT...{& UR THE MOST ACHIEST BACHEE EVER!!!) :p
I would say that in the world we are living today, it is easier to get astray from the right path.
Although the right time varies from man to man of marriage but i would say marriage should be done as early as possible if a guy can support a girl and kids because that will keep the guy away from all the immoral and unethical activities he can indulge in if not married and secondly the couple will all the time be getting the deeds/sawaab for Nikah (the Sunnah of Holy Prophet P.B.U.H), so i would say marriage should be done as early as possible provided the guy can support the women.
with regards
fM
Is it really like that where you have to compromise deen or dunya, and you cant have both?
Look, i think the issue at hand is what is the acceptable comfort level for a sister to have, and at what point is it necessary to reject a guy based on his financial status.
You guys are replying to this post with the assumption that shes requiring her suitor to have far above average income, when she is just saying that she wants what she sees as comfortable.
We should operate under the impression that she is talking about nothing out of the ordinary, but that she is talking about stability in every sense of the word.
I would like to ask the guys a question: Would you settle for someone who was not attractive to you and assess her deen as sooo important that you dont need looks?
Let me answer for you: No you wont, because the two are not mutually exclusive. Look at Abdur Rahman ibn Awf ra who it was said about him that as he would get money he would give it away, and as he gave it away the money would come back to him from another place. He couldnt get RID of money! Or Uthman ra who was the financier of the entire muslim ummah for some time!
It is possible to have deen and have wealth just as it is possible to have good looks and deen at the same time.
asalamu'alaykum wa rahmatullah
people exchange e-mail adresses or something...sheesh... its okay to see things form one pt of view or another. Let It Go, and don't take it personally. Madiha was merely posting, i'm sure her intentions werent to uspet anyone.
Yes it is right to get married fisabilillah-to save yourself from sin. And yes it is also fard for a man to provide for his wife within the limits of shariah.
If you feel yourself getting into sin, then get married, but make sure wifey knows thats shes going to need to compromise too, or atleast make sure she understands why you cant give her 'eveything' Yet. And insha'Allah you guys will be fine, marriages like that DO work. Alhamdulillah!
If you can save yourself from falling into sin, then wait till you can provide for her to meet her expectations as well as shariah limits.
Each girl or guy is different. Usually the right people find eachother and they compromise. Khallas. Your can't make a blanket statement on this issue b/c each guy is different, each girl is different, each scenario is different.
To one guy buying his wife a washing machne might be "materialistic" to another guy it might be perfectly cool. To eahc his own.....
read this: http://www.hidayaonline.com/archives/000033.html
Do what works for you, stop spending time debating on a blog via comments.
Those of you who stood up for Madiha, may Allah bless you, and those of you who persoanlly attacked her, may she forgive you insha'Allah.
Forget about the ahadith of marriage for a second.. if your going to debate, have Aklhaq. Remember this: A mumin is he who does not hurt anyone with his hand or his tounge.
May Allah forigve us, and enable us to uphold our duties to Him, His Nabi sal'Allahu'alayhiwasalam and our spouses, families, and bretheren. inshaAllah.
Wa'alaykum'asalaam wa rahmatullah
Oh and p.s No i am not 'talal' who wrote the artcile linked above.
ws
As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,
I apologize if I offended anyone or if I insulted Madiha in any way. It was not my intention. I was just merely stating what I thought and what my opinion was regarding the post in general. I did not in any way mean to direct it to anyone.
May Allaah shower us with His mercy and grant us what is the best for our dunyah and aakhirah.
Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuh.
well i read ahi tuna's first comment and puked all over the screen so i couldnt really read anymore...well all i gotta say is..a. marble aint that expensive anymore...and b. sounds like you just lost a whole lotta women that may have been considering you...well IF there were any... lets all get jobs and make this money...holla
Madoha, you really started a war . lol ;)
I agree from a religious perspective to what you have said. But, it is also said "5othohom fokara2, yo3.neyahom allah"…So, I believe that thinking financially in marriage isn't really what marriage is all about…These days, wealth isn't an issue at all…everybody is earning money in a way or another. But what really is messing these days is religion and attitude. That what will matter at the end :)
Thanks for this post, as it is so good to create an environment were discussion is made effectively.
Bro ahy:
I find it interesting that you completely missed my point as you missed the points of the other posts.
The most you will settle for as far as looks is that which you are comfortable with. You will not accept a sister who its uncomfortable for you to look at. The same way a sister will settle only for what she is comfortable with.
You can not tell a person what to be comfortable with, if you are comfortable with a certain level of beauty then go nuts, nothing wrong with that. Same with a sister's comfort level with her husband's financial stability.
And I find it funny that your talking to me like im rollin in dough. LOL, another example of why the internet is da gay.
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